Google’s use of student data could effectively ban Chromebooks from Denmark schools

[icrew]

Interesting (concerning)?

Google’s use of student data could effectively ban Chromebooks from Denmark schools

https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/7/24065332/denmark-google-student-data-collection-privacy

(It’s also interesting that The Verge doesn’t appear to have reached out to Google for a comment or response…)

Edit: a comment from Google has now been added to the article.

[Kim_Nilsson]

It is very concerning!

I frequently meet with GEG Denmark (Google Educator Group, usually one exists for all countries/states), and am a member of their Spaces, so I've been following this for years.

The latest decision is that Google isn't allowed to use student data/actions for development of their products.

This is, of course, true for all software, and not just Google, but this case solely revolves around Google and Chromebooks used by students in Denmark, since this is Datatilsynet's interpretation of Danish law.

So, either Google must change their data processing, or the Danish government must change the law.

Final deadline is August 2024 (six months), so it's tough for either of those two things to happen, but Google is most likely the one able to act the fastest. There also has to be a clear response already 1 March (three weeks from now), if this is going to be done.

[Kim_Nilsson]

This isn't a decision that will have an immediate or obvious effect on other countries in the EU, as educational laws are different. It's concerning, nonetheless, as some lawmakers might get silly ideas.

[Kim_Nilsson]

However, the IT collaboration organisation magazine, IT Branchen, is voicing a much stronger concern, as it will affect all corporations, and their NECESSARY ability to develop their products. So perhaps, it's not unreasonable to think that the legality might be addressed.

https://itb.dk/maerkesager/offentlig-digitalisering/bekymrende-udmelding-fra-datatilsynet-vil-skade-...

[AndyCaffrey]

In theory - they couldn't move to Microsoft or Apple either - as they also do this in their products, which wouldn't leave much choice for schools (other than to have no technology). I do wonder if they are pushing it - so they can get the law altered... 

[panderson]

The one question that comes to my mind is: Is it student data or data from student usage and is it anonymized and can't be tracked to who the data is from? Contents of searches are different in most cases than the clicking of menus or other tasks that don't have any identifiable information tied to them.  Because IMO there is a really big difference, and the two shouldn't need to be treated the same! Maybe that's what this is all about (or should be), trying to separate the user from the data or giving Google Admins the ability to control what gets sent to Google. Every software company needs feedback from the users of their products in order to be able to improve it.  Anonymization to me should be the number one goal/requirement with data collected by companies or services like Google.

[Kim_Nilsson]

No student data (regardless of type) is allowed to be used for product development.

Which is why the IT-corporations' member organisation is reacting with their opposition article.

[MattDPenn]

Wouldn't this mean, in theory, that education products have to be made in a void rather than figuring out what actually works? Or at least devs would only have limited feedback from staff/teachers? I do have concerns about how student data is used but it feels like a stance of 0 data usage whatsoever would hurt development of useful tools.

[Kim_Nilsson]

Yes, it does mean exactly that, which is why representatives from the software business did react.

And you are correct, @AndyCaffrey , there is no VIABLE alternative.

Suggesting moving to (self hosted) Nextcloud is a joke.

Nothing out there compares to Workspace and M365. Nothing. Anyone who says so is lying.

[alexgrutza]

Pen and paper, like the days of old...like when I was in school...in early 00's 🤣

[panderson]

Or like when I was in school  back in the 1900's

[dochxp]

Was there something in a German state in the past few years along similar lines? I tried to look it up and see any updates but was unable to find anything new. 

[Kim_Nilsson]

Yes, they did.

https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252527842/Microsoft-365-banned-in-German-schools-over-privacy-co...

https://news.itsfoss.com/microsoft-office-365-illegal-germany/

[Kim_Nilsson]

It's actually the second time it's done in Germany. They did it in 2019 too.

https://edri.org/our-work/microsoft-office-365-banned-from-german-schools-over-privacy-concerns/

[dochxp]

But there does not seem to be any update on this? Is it really true that these states schools do not use Microsoft, Google, or even Apple products in their schools? They just stopped, just like that? 

[Kim_Nilsson]

Some more lobbying (negative) from the staunchest opposition of Google, the Version2 publication.

https://www.version2.dk/holdning/chromebook-sagen-er-en-lakmustest-regeringens-tech-politik

They do mention other cloud services, but like always they keep pushing incorrect narratives, which then the public comment on and increase the confusion around what's really the issue.

[panderson]

IMO  It sounds like they should just pull the plug to the Internet, that would solve all their problems and it would probably be the only way.  Of course, they are going to have to filter out Google, Microsoft, and every other online company and service, because in reality whenever someone clicks on a link, the company is able to collect data, it's the way that all programs work.  The more honest ones will most likely tell people what they are doing with the data.